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Post by Sargon III on Feb 15, 2011 1:08:44 GMT
What could be criticized and what could not. In my humble opinion, I think there is three directions to criticize
The Relation The content "import, substance...etc." The technical
If you guys/gals notice I rarely involve in the second one, because of many reasons, first because I don't have the right to do that and I feel it is from the Prohibitions, and completely believe that there is no standards for art, it all depends on the creator taste/idea and the viewer taste, but I don't deny, sometimes, I do that in some special cases when the artist or drawer, directly or indirectly, give me the right to that. And the criticize never meant to be derogation, it doesn't have the negative meaning every time.. Most I try to point out is the technical problems which need to be addressed in my opinion "I am not sure if I am using the right term of what I am trying to explain", Like when I say as example: the text is small, that element is not centered well as it has to be, that color is bright or dark, shadow/light....etc. But never say I don't like that or this texture, that color or this design, the idea or the subject...etc. I just liked to share this with you and I hope you've gotten my point of view.
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Post by lancemcknight on Feb 15, 2011 1:19:36 GMT
Look, it is good that you provided some critique. The issue was the critique came after the poll had been started and it was already past that stage by the time the poll started.
I really don't think this thread was really necessary, but I'll leave this open for the time being.
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Post by Sargon III on Feb 15, 2011 2:03:59 GMT
This is not related to the other thread at all, it is for general discussion.!?
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Post by barbieq25 on Feb 15, 2011 8:29:48 GMT
I do believe there is a huge difference between criticism & critique.
At uni we had to critically evaluate certain texts. This meant that we had to think about a lot of different aspects such as, authority, truthfulness, relativity to the subject, soundness of the theory, writing style etc. Some people took this to mean that we have to find holes in the theory & argue against it. Not so. It meant pulling it apart to see what substance it is made of & how it fits in with other bodies of knowledge.
Critical is: your work sucks because trees are not pink. Critique is: the pink on the trees should be darker on the other side where the shadows fall.
Sargon has never been critical. I have never felt that anyone here has criticized my work in the least. I have been grateful for the critique of my work from other artists here. Don't feel that you have to be a long time poster or artist here. If there is something that can be improved & you can see it, please do say so. I would rather know & learn from it. It has the added bonus of helping others too.
Lance, yes the timing was a bit off but sometimes it takes a while to build up the courage to speak out & also remember that some of us are really busy & we don't always have the time to mull the images over like we should. There was the issue too that unless you change the background, some of the inconsistencies don't show. I'm not sure when I changed the background colour but it makes such a huge difference to how some of the images look. I can see the difference between the red one I use here, the black on the old forum & the white on the main one.
Please don't be so hard on Sargon.
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Post by Leif on Feb 15, 2011 17:21:16 GMT
Three points. A bit contradicting.
# 1 Please feel free to say your opinion on my pictures if you think something could be done better. If i don't want people to voice there opinion i will post it on DA with comments disabled.
#2 The best critic is always the one where you try to help someone improve.
#3 Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. If someone post something they are NOT obliged to change it if they themselves think it is as it is supposed to bee.
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Post by PeterPawn on Feb 15, 2011 17:53:42 GMT
I can accept constructive criticism. What I have a problem with is when someone says to me, "I can't believe this is your work." I don't see anything "constructive" about that.
BTW: I apologize to everyone about all the entries that I made.
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Post by TheBad1 on Feb 15, 2011 19:06:38 GMT
What could be criticized and what could not. In my humble opinion, I think there is three directions to criticize The Relation The content "import, substance...etc." The technical I just liked to share this with you and I hope you've gotten my point of view. Always, mate. Out of all my nearly 3yrs of using PDN I think you've put in the most critique of my work. And I thank you very much for it because you've made me look at everything I make ... again and again. I even stand up and step back from the monitor to see it from a different perspective after you told me to once. With the exception of webavenger, and a few by PM who have come and gone ... I can honestly say that I've only had positive critique in the past. I strive for perfection in everything so if people want to tell me where I've gone wrong ... I'll take it on the chin. And accept it gratefully Leif's point #3 is a very good one. (BTW this doesn't mean it's open season to shoot my next posted work down ;D ;D)
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Post by barbieq25 on Feb 15, 2011 21:56:19 GMT
I can accept constructive criticism. What I have a problem with is when someone says to me, "I can't believe this is your work." I don't see anything "constructive" about that. PP, the one thing we all notice about your work is the high standard esp in the gem & gold work. Without your help, mine would still look quite ordinary & Lance would continue to say there is something not quite right about the highlight & I'd continue to scratch my head & wonder how to fix it. The banner image, on closer inspection, was rough & very unlike your usual smooth & perfect work. The eye works in funny ways - between the eye & the brain they fill in gaps & smooth things over & it has a memory bank to draw on. So at first glance the images all looked great but we when we look at it with fresh eyes or someone else looks at it that is not familiar with our work, they don't have the memory bank & they will see it very differently. We need to really see & that is what Sargon showed us. PP, that is what Sargon meant. It is a language/culture thing. English is not Sargon's first language. I understand that because it isn't mine either but I have had many years of practice & it is one of the things I teach, so I am used to reading with understanding from a different culture. Sure sometimes we can feel that we are being slammed but I can assure you that he was not. Sargon actually paid you a great compliment - that usually your work is impeccable. Leif, yep & I have seen that on dA. It isn't for me. Welshy, yep, agree!
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Post by chrisco97 on Feb 15, 2011 22:15:01 GMT
I agree with barbieq here Peter. It is not your usual work. Sargon was giving you a compliment here. Your work is amazing.
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Post by blackpenny on Feb 16, 2011 2:48:54 GMT
Peter, that's the problem when you do something really well. Everyone expects you to do well every time. This is why I don't let on when I'm good at something, then nobody expects anything from me.
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Post by PeterPawn on Feb 16, 2011 2:55:53 GMT
Point taken everybody. Thank you very much for your support and words of encouragement. Now, let's put all this behind us. We've got a banner to design. We've got "things" to do. What do ya say?
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Post by Helen on Feb 16, 2011 4:07:17 GMT
I agree. Let's work on our banners. Peter, I already saw your's and it's .
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Post by PeterPawn on Feb 16, 2011 4:18:14 GMT
Thanks Helen. I'll be anxious to see what the other entries will be.
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Post by barbieq25 on Feb 16, 2011 6:59:55 GMT
Me too...gotta think of something new.
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Post by blackpenny on Feb 16, 2011 15:28:57 GMT
I'm brain dead so far, my original idea is still stuck in my head. I might have to sit this one out and just admire everyone else's entries.
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Post by Manc on Feb 16, 2011 18:49:12 GMT
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Post by Helen on Feb 16, 2011 21:38:54 GMT
I think that we should just "suggest" changes to avoid misunderstanding in the future.
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Post by Sargon III on Feb 16, 2011 21:56:38 GMT
Now I am
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Post by lancemcknight on Feb 16, 2011 22:49:57 GMT
Personally, I don't like the word "criticism," as it denotes a very negative meaning. Criticism also leaves some folks feeling defensive and resentful too. Comment and critique are always welcomed. As I said before, flaming another members is not going to be put up. That reminds me, I need to write up a rough draft of the rules, and I could have swore I had a rough draft saved to my hard drive before... Sarkut, Sidneys, and Welshy, I will leave a copy of the rough draft in the Admin board when I get around to it, so keep an eye for it.
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Post by blackpenny on Feb 17, 2011 2:05:59 GMT
Just for the heck of it, the definition of 'criticism' from Wikipedia:
"Criticism is the judgement of the merits and faults of the work or actions of an individual or group by another (the critic). To criticize does not necessarily imply to find fault, but the word is often taken to mean the simple expression of an objection against prejudice, or a disapproval.
Another meaning of criticism is the study, evaluation, and interpretation of literature, social movements, film, arts, and similar objects and events. The goal of this type of criticism is to understand the work or event more thoroughly."
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Post by barbieq25 on Feb 17, 2011 11:35:56 GMT
That is what I said in my usual convoluted way. Must have swallowed a dictionary somewhere along the line.
I think feedback is a much better word to use. ;D
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Post by Manc on Feb 17, 2011 13:17:26 GMT
Sorry,was rambling a bit last night so deleted post. What I meant to say is,I've no probs with constructive criticism. I think it's a good thing for someone to point something out that you may have missed. I'm always getting new ideas for images after I've posted. And,like Barbie,I think "Feedback" is a better word to use.
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